Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
 

Author Topic: Dynamo problem  (Read 450 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Peter 100

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 94
Re: Dynamo problem
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2022, 04:08:51 PM »
Steve
It certainly is usually for me as things don't always work out but hey it was all you lads with the good advice 👍👍
1934 Sunbeam model 9 🏍️
1946 Austin 10 🚙

Greybeard

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 134
Re: Dynamo problem
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2022, 03:52:02 PM »
Good news. Satisfying isnt it to sort out something you knew nothing about beforehand?  ;)

Steve
1916 Triumph Model H
1926 AJS G8 500cc ohv
1937 Sunbeam Lion 500cc
1949 Matchless G80S
1952 BSA A10 Golden Flash
1953 Matchless G9
1953 BSA B31
1958 Ariel NH350 Red Hunter
1961 Matchless G80
1961 AJS M31 De Luxe 650cc
1961 Panther M120 650cc
BMWs R100RT - R80 - F650GS
1960 Rover P4

Peter 100

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 94
Re: Dynamo problem
« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2022, 03:10:33 PM »
Hi chaps
The new regulator dvr2 arrived and it is fitted and wired up.
Great news the ammeter now showing a charge, so it looks like it was the existing unit faulty.
I split open the old one and on the inside cover it was stamped Eddystone radio. Looking on the Internet company was a UK one but went out of business some years back.
So all seems good now.
Cheers
Peter
1934 Sunbeam model 9 🏍️
1946 Austin 10 🚙

Peter 100

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 94
Re: Dynamo problem
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2022, 09:07:51 PM »
Looking on line and on utube the wassell type regulator gets a right slating to say the least, so I have sent for a dvr2 neg earth unit and will see what happens.
 If nothing changes I know at least I have got a decent unit. But from what I have learned the dynamo seems to be working plus the ammeter registers a negative with the lights so it does work. Hopefully the problem is with the regulator and this sorts it.
Peter
1934 Sunbeam model 9 🏍️
1946 Austin 10 🚙

Peter 100

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 94
Re: Dynamo problem
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2022, 09:08:28 PM »
Steve
No problem I admit I am rubbish on wiring but trying to learn and you lads give some great advice 👍👍
Mines a 34 and when I got it the battery was connected negative earth and that's how I put it back.
In that classic bike electrics book I got he recommended the dvr2 type and it looks easy to fit. £54 Inc Post so will see if all else fails.
It would be nice to get the ammeter working even though I will most prob never use it at night so the lights are not essential.
Cheers again
Peter
1934 Sunbeam model 9 🏍️
1946 Austin 10 🚙

Greybeard

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 134
Re: Dynamo problem
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2022, 07:15:06 PM »
I never trust anything a manufacturer isnt proud enough of to put his name to (that looks like a Wassel one)  ;) I use either a DVR2
https://dynamoregulators.com/dvr2.php
or a similar one from AO Services
http://www.aoservices.co.uk/data/v-reg.htm
One thought, and I dont intend to insult your intelligence, but when you put a battery on the bike, did you connect it as positive or negative earth? Pre WW2 most machines were negative earth. Afterwards they tended towards positive earth. If you werent sure how it was set up , a wrong connection, even for a moment could kill that type of regulator.
My 'beam, a 1937, was negative earth but I switched it to positive to make swapping batteries around more straightforward with quick connectors.
It does sound like youre on the way to resolving the issue though.

Steve
1916 Triumph Model H
1926 AJS G8 500cc ohv
1937 Sunbeam Lion 500cc
1949 Matchless G80S
1952 BSA A10 Golden Flash
1953 Matchless G9
1953 BSA B31
1958 Ariel NH350 Red Hunter
1961 Matchless G80
1961 AJS M31 De Luxe 650cc
1961 Panther M120 650cc
BMWs R100RT - R80 - F650GS
1960 Rover P4

Peter 100

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 94
Re: Dynamo problem
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2022, 06:56:39 PM »
Here is the regulator
1934 Sunbeam model 9 🏍️
1946 Austin 10 🚙

Peter 100

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 94
Re: Dynamo problem
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2022, 06:10:50 PM »
Chaps
Done a bit more checking.
With engine running tested across battery with meter and no voltage increase but I did get a voltage increase when I did the test with the jumper lead across the dynamo f and d terminals.
Also did the test with a flying lead from the battery to the f terminal again no charge.
I looked at the regulator it is an electronic one but with no maker on it. The bike was restored 20 years ago so the regulator could be at least that old it also has a slight smell to it like it is a bit burnt although it has no signs of damage.
Any thoughts.
Cheers
Peter
1934 Sunbeam model 9 🏍️
1946 Austin 10 🚙

Peter 100

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 94
Re: Dynamo problem
« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2022, 09:17:32 PM »
Rick
Been away and just seen your reply will have a look at what you suggest and get back thanks.

Steve
 got that book really well put together read and lots of info but still getting my head round it!!

Cheers guys.
Peter
1934 Sunbeam model 9 🏍️
1946 Austin 10 🚙

Rick Parkington

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 108
Re: Dynamo problem
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2022, 11:48:26 PM »
Good advice here but just to add my six pennorth, if a dynamo is connected correctly but not producing charge then with everything still connected and engine running, take a wire from the battery live and poke it into the F terminal. If you get a charge on the ammeter/lights brighten when you rev the motor, odds are the dynamo is fine and if you remove this 'flying wire' all should still work.
If adding the flying wire doesn't give you a charge it's likely the dynamo is the problem.
If it charges with the flying wire connected but not after you disconnect it, it is probably the regulator at fault.
Cheers Rick

Greybeard

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 134
Re: Dynamo problem
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2022, 03:30:41 PM »
Thats the one  :) I think its the best of the bunch for motorcycle electrics. They were a black art to me until I got a copy.

Steve
1916 Triumph Model H
1926 AJS G8 500cc ohv
1937 Sunbeam Lion 500cc
1949 Matchless G80S
1952 BSA A10 Golden Flash
1953 Matchless G9
1953 BSA B31
1958 Ariel NH350 Red Hunter
1961 Matchless G80
1961 AJS M31 De Luxe 650cc
1961 Panther M120 650cc
BMWs R100RT - R80 - F650GS
1960 Rover P4

Peter 100

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 94
Re: Dynamo problem
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2022, 03:21:54 PM »
Steve
Just found this on ebay is this the book you mention?
Peter
1934 Sunbeam model 9 🏍️
1946 Austin 10 🚙

Peter 100

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 94
Re: Dynamo problem
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2022, 02:46:08 PM »
Steve
Thanks for the reply.
I agree with you would be easier with a book!!
Will test what you say anyway.
Will get the book do you happen to know the title you mentioned James Smith but nothing seems to come up on the net. I found a Web page  called matchlessclueless which refers to James in the comments is that the chap? It explains thing very well for a Lucas dynamo.
Cheers
Peter
1934 Sunbeam model 9 🏍️
1946 Austin 10 🚙

Greybeard

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 134
Re: Dynamo problem
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2022, 01:08:22 PM »
A couple of points then -
Is the battery fully charged? If it is then itll not accept any more - does the ammeter needle move back to zero with the lights on? Dont get too hung up on the ammeter needle accuracy though, they can be very vague. Check the voltage across the battery terminals. It should get to about 7 volts with the engine running even with the lights on at c30mph revs. If it does then all should be ok. If not then further investigation is needed.
It could be the control box, if so consider an electronic replacement. At this point I really would recommend getting the book which explains everything. Its so much easier than a 'correspondence course'  :D

Steve
1916 Triumph Model H
1926 AJS G8 500cc ohv
1937 Sunbeam Lion 500cc
1949 Matchless G80S
1952 BSA A10 Golden Flash
1953 Matchless G9
1953 BSA B31
1958 Ariel NH350 Red Hunter
1961 Matchless G80
1961 AJS M31 De Luxe 650cc
1961 Panther M120 650cc
BMWs R100RT - R80 - F650GS
1960 Rover P4

Peter 100

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 94
Re: Dynamo problem
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2022, 11:46:00 AM »
Hi chaps
I have carried out the test using a jumper wire a bulb and a multimeter.
At tickover the blub was just lit and reading 3.5v on the meter, a bit more revs the bulb was a bit brighter and 5v on the meter a little bit more 8 to 9v.
I didn't go any higher as advised so it looks like the dynamo is working. Also no negative reading on the meter so the wiring seems right now.
The ammeter needle drops when I turn the lights on so is working but doesn't show a charge when engine is running.
Any thoughts.
Peter
1934 Sunbeam model 9 🏍️
1946 Austin 10 🚙

Peter 100

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 94
Re: Dynamo problem
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2022, 09:30:03 PM »
Steve
From what you say I think what I did when testing the output was wrong.
I will do as you suggest using a jumper wire and a bulb tomorrow.
By the way I did clean the commutator and the grooves.
So I will test tomorrow hopefully and post my results.
Peter
1934 Sunbeam model 9 🏍️
1946 Austin 10 🚙

Greybeard

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 134
Re: Dynamo problem
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2022, 09:01:03 PM »
Just to clarify, Peter. Have you tested the output with the dynamo disconnected frm the bike's wiring? Pull out the green and yellow wires from the dynamo and make up a jumper lead to connect the d and f terminals together. Connect a wire to the joined terminals to a 12v car headlamp bulb and earth the bulb to the dynamo body (or the engine) At little more than tick over the bulb should glow. As the revs rise the bulb will light up brightly. If it doesn't then the output is suspect. Dont rev it too fast as it should blow the bulb!
Have you cleaned the commutator? You canfreshen it up if the surface is blackened by holding a small piece of fine wetndry against it while the engine is running, then give everything a thorough squirt with brake cleaner, especially around the brushes which can become clogged with stray grease/oil from the bearing. If you still get no output then there is a fault with the dynamo. It is possible to rebuild one easily enough. More often than not just a new (British made) armature is needed. Ive not yet come across a duff  field coil but theres always a first time. By doing it yourself you can save a fair bit and have the dynamo up and running in an hour or so.
As Ive said before, James Smith's book is worth every penny and will give you the confidence to tackle the job yourself.
Good luck. Steve
1916 Triumph Model H
1926 AJS G8 500cc ohv
1937 Sunbeam Lion 500cc
1949 Matchless G80S
1952 BSA A10 Golden Flash
1953 Matchless G9
1953 BSA B31
1958 Ariel NH350 Red Hunter
1961 Matchless G80
1961 AJS M31 De Luxe 650cc
1961 Panther M120 650cc
BMWs R100RT - R80 - F650GS
1960 Rover P4

Peter 100

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 94
Re: Dynamo problem
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2022, 08:02:18 PM »
Steve and john
Just reading the info on the matchless clueless Web page he say a low reading could indicate the field windings or the armature could be faulty.
If this were the case it would need to be properly looked at by a service engineer.
Peter
1934 Sunbeam model 9 🏍️
1946 Austin 10 🚙

Peter 100

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 94
Re: Dynamo problem
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2022, 07:27:28 PM »
Steve and John thanks for the replys very useful.
Mine is the two brush type.
Steve like you say the way it is wired up does not seem to work. I have rewired it up to yours and John's suggestions and run it on the bike but there is was still no charge showing on the ammeter.
I then disconnected the battery and using a meter I got a 1volt reading rising a bit with a few revs. So I think the wiring is now OK and the dynamo works.
The output seems very low maybe not enough to move the ammeter needle?
Could it be a problem with the regulator or maybe new brushes required.
Cheers
Peter
1934 Sunbeam model 9 🏍️
1946 Austin 10 🚙

singleminded

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 474
Re: Dynamo problem
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2022, 08:25:51 PM »
One brush of the armature has to go to D to give an output, the other brush is then earthed.
One side of the field coil goes to F and the other goes to earth..The regulator then can put more or less power into the field coil to earth therefore conrtolling the strength of the magnetic field in the dynamo, giving more or less output to match the load (lights etc or none).
This is why when you test the output by linking D and F and connecting a bulb/voltmeter from the link and to earth you have the warning not to raise the revs too high as the out put is uncontrolled and the dynamo can burn out..20V plus can be got from the 65 Watt ones..My E3LM will just reach 12Volts like this, not good enough to convert to 12V though..John
 

singleminded

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 474
Re: Dynamo problem
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2022, 08:16:45 PM »
take the yellow wire off the post it's on a put it on the the othe brush that is earthed..John

Greybeard

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 134
Re: Dynamo problem
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2022, 01:06:43 PM »
Im not sure I follow your diagram. As it is I cannot see how it will work. The field terminal (F) is normally the green wire (ie green field) and the yellow wire from the control box goes to the D terminal. You have one brush with no electrical connection. I assume that your dynamo is a two brush type and not a three brush one.
I would suggest going back to the beginning to see if your dynamo is actually producing a current - join the D and F terminals together after removing both the wires and see if it will light a 12v bulb connected between the wires and the earth. If it lights you know the problem lies elsewhere.
Depending on what control box/electronic regulator you use may need the dynamo to be shunt wound or series wound - again its all covered in Classic Motorcycle electrics Manual by James Smith (i tried to post a link but for some reason it was huge)
If you have a look here thres an assortment of diagrams. They are all very basic with the main variation being the lighting switch
http://forum.arielownersmcc.com/viewtopic.php?p=90109#p90109

Steve
1916 Triumph Model H
1926 AJS G8 500cc ohv
1937 Sunbeam Lion 500cc
1949 Matchless G80S
1952 BSA A10 Golden Flash
1953 Matchless G9
1953 BSA B31
1958 Ariel NH350 Red Hunter
1961 Matchless G80
1961 AJS M31 De Luxe 650cc
1961 Panther M120 650cc
BMWs R100RT - R80 - F650GS
1960 Rover P4

Peter 100

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 94
Re: Dynamo problem
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2022, 11:36:05 AM »
Steve
Thanks for the reply, lots of useful info there especially when testing and re flashing etc but I cannot see anything in connection with a typical wiring diagram.
I looked at the standard lucas data sheet which I found on the Web and the diagram is so unclear not made for novices like me!!
Cheers
1934 Sunbeam model 9 🏍️
1946 Austin 10 🚙

Greybeard

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 134
Re: Dynamo problem
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2022, 08:05:26 AM »
This chap's website is well worth a look for a detailed explanation - his book is invaluable.

https://www.matchlessclueless.com/

Steve

1916 Triumph Model H
1926 AJS G8 500cc ohv
1937 Sunbeam Lion 500cc
1949 Matchless G80S
1952 BSA A10 Golden Flash
1953 Matchless G9
1953 BSA B31
1958 Ariel NH350 Red Hunter
1961 Matchless G80
1961 AJS M31 De Luxe 650cc
1961 Panther M120 650cc
BMWs R100RT - R80 - F650GS
1960 Rover P4

Peter 100

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 94
Re: Dynamo problem
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2022, 07:23:00 PM »
Diagram of my set up
1934 Sunbeam model 9 🏍️
1946 Austin 10 🚙

Peter 100

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 94
Dynamo problem
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2022, 07:17:37 PM »
Hello to all.
Any advice please, my dynamo doesn't seem to be working. I have stripped and cleaned the brushes, wires and connections and everything seems OK. After looking on the Internet at various examples and photos I am wondering if mine has been wired up correctly.
I will post a diagram of how mine is currently wired up but the example I have seen on the Internet shows the red wire going to the earth connection along with the brush wire and the yellow wire from the field coil goes to the F connector in the Bakerlite cap. The green wire is connected up the same in mine and the Internet example.
Any thoughts.
Cheers
Peter
1934 Sunbeam model 9 🏍️
1946 Austin 10 🚙