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Author Topic: 1932 M9A Valves Springs Problem  (Read 937 times)

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klaudius

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Re: 1932 M9A Valves Springs Problem
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2022, 08:33:41 PM »
Thanks very much
I replaced the spring and now they fit perfectly, spring pressure too.
It's always the little things that stop.
Claudius.

Rick Parkington

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Re: 1932 M9A Valves Springs Problem
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2022, 04:26:34 PM »
H Thomas, yes that makes sense.
On any engine, I expect to be able to open a valve slightly if I lean on the top of he valve with the 'heel' of my hand - even though it hurts a bit to do - but I couldn't do that with those Terry's springs!
Cheers Rick   

Thomas

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Re: 1932 M9A Valves Springs Problem
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2022, 10:55:22 AM »
Hi Rick!

Quote
After fitting them I could not move the valve at all by pressing with my hand which I thought was much too strong and would damage the camshaft and followers.

When I overhauled my engine, I replaced my old springs with new ones from Claudius. Old and new springs together had almost identical spring constants of just under 20,000 N/m (details on page 42 of http://www.marston-sunbeam.org/sunbeamForum/index.php?topic=969.msg3863#msg3863). To compress the springs by one millimeter, you have to apply about 20 Newton, i.e. almost 2 kg. This should still be possible with your finger. So if you can't move the springs by hand, they are probably too strong, indeed.

Cheers, Thomas
« Last Edit: April 13, 2022, 10:57:33 AM by Thomas »
1946 BSA C11
1937 Sunbeam Model 9
... and a scratched Hyundai
(MSCR member)

Rick Parkington

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Re: 1932 M9A Valves Springs Problem
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2022, 07:37:51 PM »
Hi Claudius - yes I think that's me!
No my spring coils are not closed at the end - but I think as Thomas says, that would depend on the spring design, some are made weaker at the ends - or possibly get weakened by the heat of the cylinder head. If you send a PM maybe I can  send you a photo - I have just not figured out how to do it on here!
Cheers Rick   
« Last Edit: April 12, 2022, 07:50:04 PM by Rick Parkington »

klaudius

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Re: 1932 M9A Valves Springs Problem
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2022, 06:10:45 PM »
I've disassembled mine down to the last screw... it's getting so slow. First test run in autumn. I read posts from a manes in England. Already had 2 accidents with his Sunbeam. I found the straightening of the handlebars impressive. Have offered my help should it need it. Don't know if it's you? Are the first 2 coils of the spring. printed together at the top and bottom of the plate?
I'm sorry for asking so many questions, but this doesn't leave me alone.
claudius

Rick Parkington

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Re: 1932 M9A Valves Springs Problem
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2022, 05:36:23 PM »
Hi Claudius - great story!
I've had my 9A for about 20 years on the road but last year we both got smacked up by a car not looking what he was doing. I healed naturally - but the Sunbeam is still bent and in pieces!
But luckily the box with the engine bits was not too hard to find!
I'm not good at sending photos I'm afraid but with the valve fitted to the cylinder head, my springs are about 40mm long - that is to say 40mm from the washer beneath the spring to the collar at the top. There are also hardened caps on both valve tips to reach up to the tappet adjusters.   
Hope this helps
Rick 

klaudius

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Re: 1932 M9A Valves Springs Problem
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2022, 05:10:03 PM »
Thanks. For me, only the valves are new from Club. The springs are original from the 1932 Sunbeam, as are the spring holders. I decided to install the original spring because the Club ones - as you correctly described - are too hard. I think it must be because of the tulip valves (club). I can't understand at all whether it's okay with me or not. I look forward to your photos and information.
My M9A original paint was stored for 68 years... over war from nazi hiding place. crazy story. I'm in the process of putting them on the road.
Claudius
PS Glad to meet an M9A owner.
claudius

Rick Parkington

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Re: 1932 M9A Valves Springs Problem
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2022, 04:56:45 PM »
Hi Claudius,
My 32 9A is in pieces at the moment, the bits are buried in a shed but I will find the head and measure the 'fitted length' of the springs for you.
But one thing, I remember the valve springs seemed much too long when I fitted them - nearly half the length fitted as they were before fitting. These were not 'club springs' but a set of new-old-stock 'Terry's' springs I found. After fitting them I could not move the valve at all by pressing with my hand which I thought was much too strong an d would damage the camshaft and followers. 
A friend gave me some second-hand original Sunbeam springs which were the same length but made from thinner wire so they were not so hard and these have been fitted ever since.
I will come back with a measurement as soon as I can - there are a few boxes to move!
Cheers Rick

klaudius

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Re: 1932 M9A Valves Springs Problem
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2022, 08:53:24 AM »
When I look at the photos online I get different results. The original valves inside were no longer original. Those were custom valves. Unfortunately, I do not know the correct appearance of such springs when installed.
So please - if you have an M9/9A... please post some photos.
I don't thank you in advance
claudius

Thomas

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Re: 1932 M9A Valves Springs Problem
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2022, 08:34:05 AM »
I understand! Maybe someone with the same year can help. But one technical remark: A spring is always evenly compressed. That means all windings have always the same distance to each other. So, if only the first two windings are compressed, this should not be a problem but their design.
1946 BSA C11
1937 Sunbeam Model 9
... and a scratched Hyundai
(MSCR member)

klaudius

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Re: 1932 M9A Valves Springs Problem
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2022, 08:13:02 AM »
i need a comparison A mass-built condition and a photo. Guess the built-in tulip valves (club) are a bit too short for the M9A. Everything else is original. The first 2 windings on top and top are pressed together. Think has to switch to other springs. Does anyone have any tips that might fit? Thickness, diameter just a little shorter...
Please excuse my english.
claudius

Thomas

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Re: 1932 M9A Valves Springs Problem
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2022, 07:47:39 AM »
Hi Claudius,

I guess you mean the strong spring compression with "cramped". According to my 1937 Model 9 this seems to be ok. What measures do you exactly need?

Cheers, Thomas
1946 BSA C11
1937 Sunbeam Model 9
... and a scratched Hyundai
(MSCR member)

klaudius

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1932 M9A Valves Springs Problem
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2022, 05:45:59 AM »
Hi
The springs, plates and wedges on my cylinder head are original. I just swapped the valves for Club valves. The guide is new and slightly shortened towards the combustion chamber.
The whole thing seems a bit cramped to me. Can someone help me measure and take a picture? I'm at a loss.
Machine is a 1932 M9A
Thanks very much
Claudius.